Okay, short note before I start this. It has occurred to me that the only time I blog now is when I’m frustrated and can’t fit it into 140 characters, or when people ask me the same question repeatedly to the point that it’s easier to blog about it. This post is of the second kind. :P
So Uru is back (again), and it’s Windows only. Mac people can possibly use the old GameTap Cider package and replace the application contents, but Linux people need to use wine. I’ve had good luck with wine and Uru, and after a plethora of IMs, PMs, Tweets, and forum posts, I’m writing a tutorial for getting Uru working with wine.
Update: This is compatible with wine 1.1.40!
Update: This is compatible with wine 1.1.41, but requires some minor changes to the patches.
Update: This is (mostly) compatible with wine 1.1.42. Download the latest patches from wine bug 421. After ./configure, you only need to run make (not make depend).
Update: This is compatible with wine 1.1.44! Download the latest patches from wine bug 421.
Update: This should work with wine 1.2! I’ve also been informed that it works with wine 1.3.1 (and probably newer ones like 1.3.4).
Update: With wine 1.3.16 you NO LONGER NEED THE DIB ENGINE PATCHES!
Are you looking to test a native Linux/Mac client for MOUL?
Check out branan’s awesome PlasmaClient project. Download the alpha release and watch for progress!
1. Set Up & Basics
At the time of writing, the latest version of wine is 1.1.39. I will most likely be compiling each new version of wine when it is released, and will post updates if anything changes or breaks.
I am running on Ubuntu Karmic, so instructions may be different for different distros.
wine has a long outstanding bug involving its (lack of) DIB engine. For Uru, this is important for the cursor. If you use wine without patches, your cursor will be a white block. The game is still entirely playable (as far as I can tell), but if you want the cursor you will need to compile wine yourself.
1.1 Getting wine (no patches)
On Ubuntu Karmic, open the Software Sources menu by going to System->Administration->Software Sources.
Then select the Third Party Software tab and click Add.
In the APT Line box, enter the following:
ppa:ubuntu-wine/ppa
Open Synaptic Package Manager by going to System->Administration->Synaptic Package Manager.
Click the Reload button.
Find the wine package in the package list and mark it for installation.
Click the Apply button to install the packages.
Continue to step 2.
Source – http://www.winehq.org/download/deb
1.2 Patch and compile wine
THIS IS NO LONGER NECESSARY IF YOU ARE RUNNING WINE 1.3.16 OR HIGHER
On Ubuntu Karmic, open the Software Sources menu by going to System->Administration->Software Sources.
Then select the Third Party Software tab and click Add.
In the APT Line box, enter the following:
ppa:ubuntu-wine/ppa
Update your packages:
sudo apt-get update
Install the necessary library and development packages:
sudo apt-get build-dep wine1.2
Download the wine source code from SourceForge.
Extract the wine source code to a directory (I’ll assume ~/wine-1.1.39).
Download the DIB engine patches from wine bug #421.
Extract the DIB patches to a subdirectory (such as ~/wine-1.1.39/dibeng-max).
Go through the series file, and apply each patch to wine as follows:
~/wine-1.1.39$ patch -p1 < ./dibeng-max/patch_file.patch
Rebuild the configure script by running:
~/wine-1.1.39$ autoconf
Configure wine:
~/wine-1.1.39$ ./configure
Compile wine: (You only need to use make depend if you are compiling an old version of wine < 1.1.42)
~/wine-1.1.39$ make depend && make
Install wine:
~/wine-1.1.39$ sudo make install
2. Make OpenAL work with pulseaudio
In theory, wine is capable of using the system’s OpenAL library to provide native sound output. In practice, the sound cuts out after the intro video for me.
This is also complicated by the fact that pulseaudio and wine don’t always play nicely either. If this is an issue, I wish you luck. :P
Update: To make the sounds work fully in wine, please see http://forum.guildofwriters.com/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=4203.
Open the wine configuration tool by going to Application->Wine->Configure Wine.
Go to the Libraries tab.
In the New override for library type the following:
openal32
Click the Add button.
You should see in the Existing Overrides box an entry that says
openal32 (native, builtin)
Click Apply to save your changes.
3. Set the wine version
Uru uses PhysX as a physics backend. PhysX requires wine to be in Windows XP mode.
Open the wine configuration tool (it should still be open).
Go to the Applications tab.
Set the Windows Version dropdown to Windows XP.
Click OK to save your changes.
4. Get MO:ULagain
Ideally get a full version from one of the mirrors listed at MystOnline.com.
5. Run Uru
There are two executable files in the main Uru directory: UruLauncher.exe and UruExplorer.exe.
UruLauncher is the patcher program, UruExplorer is the actual game.
Rather than running the patcher directly, I’ve had better luck if I run the game (which will detect and then launch the patcher itself).
If you’re using an unpatched wine, you should be able to simply double click UruExplorer.exe to launch the game.
If you patched wine, I suggest creating a quicklaunch file in your Uru directory to set up the DIB engine and run the game.
Open a terminal and navigate to your Uru directory.
$ echo "WINEDIB=ON wine UruExplorer.exe" > runuru
$ sudo chmod a+x ./runuru
$ ./runuru
So I’ve followed this but when I login and accept the EULA, I get an entry in Docky for “Untitled Window”, but no said window. Does Compiz need to be off?
I run with compiz enabled, so it shouldn’t matter.
You can try disabling it though to see if it helps.
I’ve gotten further than expected, but at this point, I’m crashing out on the video settings:
err:winediag:X11DRV_WineGL_InitOpenglInfo Direct rendering is disabled, most likely your OpenGL drivers haven’t been installed correctly
If you have suggestions, I’d love to see them in here. Thanks so much for doing this!
The error says “Direct rendering is disabled, most likely your OpenGL drivers haven’t been installed correctly”.
You are probably using the default generic video drivers that came with Ubuntu, rather than ones that are specific to your card.
Try opening the Driver settings by going to System->Administration->Hardware Drivers.
If you see one that is recommended, try installing it and see if it fixes the problem.
Ok, I’ve got some error codes by running it through the terminal.
“chris@DeepBlue:~$ wine ‘/home/chris/.wine/drive_c/Program Files/Uru Live/UruExplorer.exe’
chris@DeepBlue:~$ fixme:ntdll:RtlNtStatusToDosErrorNoTeb no mapping for 8000000a
fixme:ntdll:RtlNtStatusToDosErrorNoTeb no mapping for 8000000a
URUPlayer StartProc, running game process at dir:C:\Program Files\Uru Live\, cmd:C:\Program Files\Uru Live\UruExplorer.exe for application:UruExplorer.exe
0err:winediag:X11DRV_WineGL_InitOpenglInfo Direct rendering is disabled, most likely your OpenGL drivers haven’t been installed correctly
fixme:d3d_caps:init_driver_info Unhandled vendor 8086.
fixme:d3d:check_fbo_compat Format WINED3DFMT_B8G8R8_UNORM with rendertarget flag is not supported as FBO color attachment, and no fallback specified.
fixme:d3d:check_fbo_compat Format WINED3DFMT_B8G8R8A8_UNORM with rendertarget flag is not supported as FBO color attachment, and no fallback specified.
fixme:d3d:check_fbo_compat Format WINED3DFMT_B8G8R8X8_UNORM with rendertarget flag is not supported as FBO color attachment, and no fallback specified.
fixme:d3d:check_fbo_compat Format WINED3DFMT_B5G6R5_UNORM rtInternal format is not supported as FBO color attachment.
fixme:d3d:check_fbo_compat Format WINED3DFMT_R16G16_UNORM rtInternal format is not supported as FBO color attachment.
fixme:d3d:check_fbo_compat Format WINED3DFMT_R16G16B16A16_UNORM with rendertarget flag is not supported as FBO color attachment, and no fallback specified.
fixme:win:EnumDisplayDevicesW ((null),0,0x33ccf0,0×00000000), stub!
err:seh:setup_exception_record stack overflow 1092 bytes in thread 0027 eip 0053f843 esp 00240eec stack 0×240000-0×241000-0×340000″
See my reply to the above comment. Are you running with the correct video drivers? (Though in theory compiz shouldn’t work if you aren’t…)
If you have nvidia drivers, you probably also need the nvidia-###-glx package installed for proper OpenGL acceleration.
I’ve the same problem as Chris.
I guess it’s because I’ve a Intel GMA X3100 and using dri2 but I’m not sure if that’d be the source of problems.
I even installed dx9redist and problem still stays.
But I’m quite sure it’s a problem with my 64bits distro.
Any idea?
wine installed from the Ubuntu/wine repositories should work fine on a 64bit distro (but it can’t run 64bit apps).
The issue is that your video drivers don’t support OpenGL Direct Rendering (which wine requires for DirectX support).
You can see if Direct Rendering is supported by running the following:
glxinfo | grep "direct"You should hopefully see a line that reads
direct rendering: YesIt returns «direct rendering: Yes» (I’m using Compiz btw)
Vertex Shader via «Hardware» and Pixel Shader checked.
Hey, I just tried the DIB patch and (after wrangling with missing libraries – might want to update the compile instructions for folks who don’t do much source building on linux) finally got wine put together… And yet:
err:driver:Load_Dib_Driver Couldn’t load DIB Engine
Any ideas why?
Ah, thanks for mentioning the libraries. I should have included
sudo apt-get build-dep winein my instructions.Regarding the DIB Engine problem, are you running Uru with WINEDIB=ON?
Yes, I am.
As far as libraries, I thought I had added everything I needed manually, but it looks like that build-dep line has found a few more (it failed at first because I forgot to enable “source” lines in my repositories.
Will try another recompile and see how it goes.
Thanks for the help :)
Still nothing. Everything finishes without errors, but when I install I don’t seem to have the file called “winedib.drv” – that is the driver that the patch is supposed to make, right?
Trying again, this time dumping all the make output into a file so I can read over it to see what’s going wrong.
Did you run
autoconfafter applying the patches? That step is inportant to get the DIB engine working…That was the hint I needed. I *was* using autoconf faithfully each time, but it wasn’t doing anything because the configure.ac file was unchanged. Somehow, for some reason, the patch called “dib-engine-initial-pass-throug.patch” had an invalid entry where it was supposed to add the driver to the configure.ac file. How I missed the ‘FAILED’ message from patch three times in a row is a mystery.
Apparently, the patch was trying to add a line that started with WINE_CONFIG_MAKEFILE in between several other similar lines for the other drivers. But, the actual file contains a bunch of shorter lines that start with WINE_CONFIG_DLL. All I had to do was imitate their format with a new line for winedib.drv. This should be the last thing I need to fix (*fingers crossed*).
On an unrelated note, how do you format text in monospace here? There’s no preview and I don’t want to try a tag that doesn’t work and end up looking silly.
Glad you got it working :)
Monospace can be achieved with <code> tags.
stack dump log
UruLive.Live.1.871 – External.Release
Exception type: (unknown)
Call stack (14 levels):
0x0045401B
0x00452D90
0x005710BD
0x00593D17
0x2A4A45DF
0x7065A268
0x7068746A
0x5B474767
0x5B47D29A
0x5B485899
0x5B48579D
0x6817B648
when i launch the game i hear the intro song but have a blank screen then i get this, is this a graphics card issue?
What version of wine are you using? 1.1.39?
I don’t have it working myself yet, but at http://wiki.winehq.org/DIBEngine it says:
There is an environment variable, WINEDIB, which can be set with “export WINEDIB=ON”. This must be done in the terminal before any applications needing the DIB engine are run.
Have you tried that?
stash, mind pointing me to the version of wine you use? If I can find the same libraries, I can trace them.
im using wine 1.1.38 on ubuntu karmic, thanks for any help
32-bit Karmic?
We’ve traced it outside wine to OpenGl. Do you have a 32 bit or 64 bit OS, and if you know it, what gl library do you have?
stash@stash-desktop:~$ uname -m
i686
stash@stash-desktop:~$ uname -a
Linux stash-desktop 2.6.31-19-generic #56-Ubuntu SMP Thu Jan 28 01:26:53 UTC 2010 i686 GNU/Linux
stash@stash-desktop:~$ glxinfo | grep “direct”
direct rendering: Yes
stash@stash-desktop:~$
OpenGL vendor string: Tungsten Graphics, Inc
OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI Intel(R) 845G GEM 20090712 2009Q2 RC3 x86/MMX/SSE2
OpenGL version string: 1.3 Mesa 7.6
hope this helps
I also have a similar problem in my uru:cc install. I would post the stack dump but I think I will wait until stash has his problem solved.
Also if it helps I found that turning off audio in the launcher fixed my problem but unfortunately myst can not be played without audio.
In order to trace it accurately, would you mind providing me with a copy of your OpenGl libraries? You can probably find these in lib/libGL*.so You can email me at tahgtahv AT gmail DOT com if you want.
is there anything special needed to trace this or is it just some debugging program, I just don’t want to cause too much trouble.
No trouble at all. However, I’ll have to dig up CC in order to trace it. Pretty sure I have a copy floating around. Sounds like you have some sort of audio problem Demos, if disabling audio fixes it. I can look into exactly where it crashed, but my guess is drivers are the ultimate issue.
My bet is that wine is not playing nice with CoreAudio(the driver I am using for wine), the only thing is I don’t think any of the other wine supported drivers play well with OSX. I am using wine 1.1.25 as distributed with crossover games l4d edition(I am using the CXZ black diamond wrapper)
and the error follows, thank you for the quick reply
Exception type: Access violation
Call stack (14 levels):
0x00869D54
0x00475D0F
0x0047650B
0×00641570
0x00640F3C
0x0064112F
0×00614758
0x00613F71
0x0061716B
0x00615CB1
0x00615D9F
0x00619CAD
0×00619565
I can see, without even tracing it, that it’s crashing within the game engine and not in another driver. This however doesn’t necessarily mean that the driver is not at fault, it could for instance be returning null because something failed. I’ll check into it. This is the packaged version of CC I assume? If not, I’ll need a version, or baring that the filesize and md5 of UruExplorer
well I did install the nocd patch from ubi
SOOO
UruExplorer.exe md5: cc57bc5c6b16f0524037a0eeb1d0ca10
UruExplorer.exe filesize: 7.8MB as reported by finder and 7782400 (bytes I assume) as reported by ls
Just a note to everyone, the patches I linked do not apply cleanly to wine 1.1.39.
I will fix them and update the link :)
that patch seems to be for DIB(Device independent bitmap?). I guess crossover’s version of wine does not need that as it must be already included. I would suppose this may be an alternative for linux people as the source for that distribution of wine are available on the crossover site.
Correct. CrossOver has their own DIB implementation, so don’t worry about patching.
Updated the link to point to a set of (hopefully) correct patches. Please let me know if you have any problems getting them to apply :)
The patches applied without errors, and I successfully compiled Wine. The cursor renders correctly, but the graphics got messed up in other ways.
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/8659/gitwine.png
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/1671/gitwinefs.png
(For some reason the screenshots show my Linux cursor rather than the game cursor, but that part is rendering correctly in reality. The real cursor is visible “ghosted” in the fullscreen screenshot; I see it solid (unghosted) and the Linux cursor (the arrow) is invisible.)
In the screenshots, note particularly the partially-invisible avatar (with the version of Wine from the repositories, only the hands and face are missing (at least with this outfit)), and the weird stuff along the top and right borders, which seems to resemble a closeup of the missing polygons.
(Also note that the cursor responds correctly to the movement hotspot at the edge of the screen. :D)
The problem was not this, but rather the OffscreenRenderingMode=backbuffer registry option.
Seeing a Compile error against current git-wine
/home/darkside/wine-git/dlls/winedib.drv/graphics.c:324: undefined reference to `ClipLine’
Am I missing something?!
hmm, I haven’t tested anything against git, only against the releases.
It’s possible there are GDI or DIB changes in git that will require a new version of the patch for 1.1.40. :(
Ok, I always follow Git on wine for cutting edginess
I cheated with the compile error since its just a test to check if some other bits of code needed to be run, it might break other things. but for now it seems to be ok for Uru
graphics.c : Line 324
if(ClipLine(&p1, &p2, r, &pc1, &pc2))
to
if (TRUE)
Again dirty hack, but it sorted the issue out
Disregard that, it was something else. Investigating now.
That’s interesting… the post that was referring to is still being held for moderation as I write this.
Anyway, the problem was one of the registry settings at http://mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19932&p=324365#324365 .
Shorah
As a linux n00b, I’m using Mint Helena based on Ubuntu Karmic Koala, and when I try to compile I get this message:
joe@joe-laptop ~/wine-1.1.39 $ sudo apt-get build-dep wine1.2
Reading package lists… Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information… Done
E: Unable to find a source package for wine1.2
joe@joe-laptop ~/wine-1.1.39 $
What am I obviously doing wrong?
Thanks, RR
I have no experience with Mint, so I’m not sure whether they have a wine1.2 package.
Perhaps add the wine repository (as in step 1), but don’t install wine, run build-dep instead.
To enable WINEDIB=ON without patching and compiling.
Download patched binary files to insert into your current wine-1.1.40 installation.
From this location … http://jump.fm/OHRGC
The package contains gdi32.dll.so and winedib.dll.so
Unpacking and installing depends on your configuration.
sudo unzip -d /usr wine-1.1.40-winedibpatch-i686.zip
Getting ready for MystOnline :))
http://www.2shared.com/file/12210864/2543295e/wine-1140-winedibpatch-i686.html
Paradox,
Thanks a TON dude! I lost XP today and can’t reinstall. Can’t afford Windows 7, so I’ve installed Ubuntu 9.10 and Wine 1.1.41…….
With your instructions here, I’m able to log on with Uru Live!
Thanks again!
Andy
I realize these instructions are for Linux. I’m trying to solve the same cursor problem on a Mac.
So far, with wine 1.1.41, I seem to have gotten around the kemo/GZ problems, but still the cursor issue remains. I’ve been using
./configure –prefix=/Applications/Wine.app/Contents/Resources
without running autoconf first, and everything compiles without errors.
If I run autoconf first, then configure gives the following error messages:
./configure: line 24489: syntax error near unexpected token `$ac_enable,no,,wine_fn_append_rule’
./configure: line 24489: ` AS_VAR_IF($ac_enable,no,,wine_fn_append_rule ALL_MAKEFILE_DEPENDS \’
I’m not at all familiar with the format of configure files, and have no idea what to try next. Any ideas would be very welcome!
Walt
The entire section is:
wine_fn_config_makefile ()
{
ac_dir=$1
ac_enable=$2
wine_fn_all_dir_rules $ac_dir “Make.rules \$(MAKEDEP)”
AS_VAR_IF($ac_enable,no,,wine_fn_append_rule ALL_MAKEFILE_DEPENDS \
“all .PHONY: $ac_dir
$ac_dir: $ac_dir/Makefile dummy
@cd $ac_dir && \$(MAKE)
install:: $ac_dir
@cd $ac_dir && \$(MAKE) install
install-lib:: $ac_dir
@cd $ac_dir && \$(MAKE) install-lib
install-dev:: $ac_dir
@cd $ac_dir && \$(MAKE) install-dev
uninstall:: $ac_dir/Makefile
@cd $ac_dir && \$(MAKE) uninstall”)
}
I’ve looked for all the obvious stuff- unbalanced parentheses, quote marks, and there are 4 other occurrences of AS_VAR_IF in the file, all with similar syntax, so I’m stumped.
Help would be appreciated :-)
Walt
Unfortunately, I have no experience building stuff on Mac, or know what versions of autotools it uses.
Try sending a PM to Christian Walther or Tiran, and see if they’ve got any information that might help.
I haven’t tried compiling with 1.1.42 yet, waiting to see if there are any dib engine patches that need updating.
I’d love to to try this, but I already have some stuff running under 1.1.42 (I didn’t know this was available, and the Myst series of games were the only games that ever got me hooked). Am I going to have to uninstall wine and then recompile from source?
OK, ignore my previous post. I’ve uninstalled my previous version of wine and followed the instructions to patch and compile wine 1.1.44 on my 64bit Lucid Lynx. I the only improvement is that I now get the arrow cursor as well as the big square white block… anyone have any ideas??
I’ve had the same thing recent (normal cursor appearing over the Uru cursor). I don’t know of a fix.
Problem is I’ve gone from having the big square block to having the big square block with the cursor arrow :-) I don’t seem to have quite enough accuracy to do things like sharing books, though otherwise I can play (and thanks to your pointers above seem to have full sound *most* of the time). I’m wondering whether I should recompile with an earlier version of wine rather than 1.1.44? Any thoughts, or does 1.1.44 work fine for people here (in which case I might just try a recompile of 1.1.44)
I think 1.1.44 was the last compatible version. It does not work properly with the 1.2RC builds.
I’m using 1.1.44 on a Mac OS X 10.6.4
I originally compiled it as 1.1.41 and then have just taken the automatic updates since.
If I launch it with
WINEDIB=ON ~/wine-1.1.41/wine UruExplorer.exe
as suggested in an earlier post, I get a long litany of repeated error messages like this:
Wine cannot find the FreeType font library. To enable Wine to
use TrueType fonts please install a version of FreeType greater than
or equal to 2.0.5.
http://www.freetype.org
err:driver:Load_Dib_Driver Couldn’t load DIB Engine
and then Uru finally starts. I DO have a current FreeType font library installed and I have no idea how to get/install the DIB Engine.
The game runs normally, and I get the same arrow + box cursor Adam and others have mentioned.
Walt
(Gentoo)
I have analog problem, after parching and istalation, wine say me (after WINEDIB=ON wine acad.exe):
err:driver:Load_Dib_Driver Couldn’t load DIB Engine
err:driver:Load_Dib_Driver Couldn’t load DIB Engine
err:driver:Load_Dib_Driver Couldn’t load DIB Engine
err:driver:Load_Dib_Driver Couldn’t load DIB Engine
err:driver:Load_Dib_Driver Couldn’t load DIB Engine
err:driver:Load_Dib_Driver Couldn’t load DIB Engine
…..
How resolve this problem loading driver?
Without the dib engine Autocad is wery slow rendering TruType text. I am suspect, that may problem (->err:driver:Load_Dib_Driver Couldn’t load DIB Engine) from the specifik Gentoo instalation method.
My step:
1. Unpack wine-1.1.18.tar.bz2
2. Patch: patch -p1 wine-1.1.18.tar.bz2
5. Replace original wine-1.1.18.tar.bz2 in distfiles directory
6. emerge =wine-1.1.18
On all steps no problem, but after use wine, error load driver is present (err:driver:Load_Dib_Driver Couldn’t load DIB Engine)
I use old wine-1.1.18 for example, because on new wine-1.1.43 one patch say lake that “hint failed”.
The DIB engine will definitely not apply to wine 1.1.18. You should use 1.1.44 with the latest DIB engine patches.
As a sidenote, let me explain the situation with wine 1.2…
Some changes were made that broke the DIB engine, there was a very ugly hack added to the patches to make it compile again. I suppose you could compile it with some success, but I’m currently waiting and hoping that someone finds a nicer way to resolve the issue.
Sorry for obsession, my new step (for wine 1.44):
1. go to: http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=421
2. download : DIB Engine – Fixed for wine-1.1.44 http://bugs.winehq.org/attachment.cgi?id=27879
3.unpack : dibeng-max.zip
4. i have 15 files :
dib-engine-add-clipping-on-xxx.patch
….. and other and file “series”.
5. Copy this 15 patch file to unpack wine-1.1.44
6. aplay first patch:
patch -p1 < dib-engine-add-clipping-on-xxx.patch
7. patch say me: "can't find file to patch at input line 17"
"Perhaps you used the wrong -p or –strip options?"
…..same informations…………
"File to patch: " (I understand that , i am need enter same filename?)
It is wrong? Why patch swear?
My gentoo system broken or I take invalid patch?
Sorry, I am use incorrect order of aplay patch. (I dont see file “series”)
After patching AutoCAD increase truetype text rendering VERY MUTCH (same as in Windows), but same artefact is came(appear) -> in text add random blank place.
successfully applied the DIB engine patch (Comment #378 From max@veneto.com 2010-08-03 16:48:29) to wine –version 1.3.1. works great! thanks for the write-up.
but i’ve got to ask: are you affected by odd mouse behavior? oh, like it warping back to the center of the screen if you get close to the edge? is this normal? I’ve been afflicted with this since I first tried running UruLA a couple of months ago. That and the cursor have kept from playing more, but now that the cursor’s fixed (oh, what a nightmare that was), the mouse warping is that last obstacle in my way.
- tasker.
Ah, thanks for testing with 1.3.1! The DIB engine is starting to fray at this point, and being held together with more hacks that just guarantee it won’t be included or properly maintained. But if it works, it works.
I have also seen the snapping mouse issue, and I haven’t found a cause for it yet. It definitely didn’t happen with older (1.1.0 to early 1.4.x IIRC) builds.